Fwd: HV BEAT CENSORS AND CONTROLS OPINIONS SHUTS OFF DIALOQUE

From: Charlessands

Date: December 17, 2010 8:29:11 AM PST

To: Mari Tamburo

Subject: HV BEAT CENSORS AND CONTROLS OPINIONS SHUTS OFF DIALOQUE

FYI

SEE THE BELOW EXCHANGE OF EMAILS

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Garriott
To: Mari Tamburo
Cc: Hannelore Barnes; hearus ; charlessands
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 12:38 am
Subject: Re: [HEAR US] Evergreen Walk Report

Mari,  Is this an open forum or what?  If somebody wants to reply to a report made by someone else, and good points are made in the process, then why should the person replying be told by you that they should not say this or that?  I think this was an example of two way dialogue, wasn't it?  Maybe you should state that you want no replies to certain letters?  I thought we were trying to achive something here....  Keith   On 12/15/10, Mari Tamburo  wrote: > This list invites two way dialogue  - please be polite. > > Keith - > Please let's forget about the proposed 5' or 6' sidewalk for the time > being and allow our neighbors to share their experiences honestly and > openly  without fear of backlash. > > Hanne (and anyone else who would like to submit a walking/bicycling/ > travel experience  report about Evergreen.) > > Please understand that when you add an opinion for or against the > sidewalk, (or dedicated path with protection,) to your report - that > there are some members of this list who will feel the need to debate > their views. > > If we all just stick to the facts for the time being,  interested > parties can collect data about the current walking and bicycling > conditions- then, we can have a more productive exchange of ideas for > solutions at a later date. > > Thanks again for your participation. > > - Mari > > On Dec 15, 2010, at 2:34 PM, Keith Garriott > wrote: > >> Hanne, >> >> Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you didn't want to have any comments >> replied towards the misconceptions on your daily report! >> >> Oh, by the way, Evergreen Ave between Melrose and Scott @ Volunteer >> Park is even narrower than the area I noted in the previous >> email...and they want to add a 5 foot wide sidewalk there? >> >> Keith >> >> On 12/15/10, Hannelore Barnes wrote: >>> Sorry, I meant Scott and Melrose.  The school's address is Montford >>> so I >>> always confuse Montford and Melrose. >>> >>> My intention is to make a report to add to the other reports, not >>> stir a >>> debate. >>> >>> Cheers, Hanne >>> >>> >>> On Dec 15, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Keith Garriott wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Hanne, >>>> >>>> I just read your morning report for Evergreen Avenue traffic and >>>> pedestrian interactions. >>>> >>>> I was a bit confussed about your where abouts on Evergreen Ave >>>> between >>>> Scott and Montford....do you mean Scott and Hawthorne? >>>> >>>> If so, then with parked cars on the road at that section of the >>>> roadway >>>> measures approximately 22 feet in width, the same as the desired >>>> traffic calming senerio proposed to be planned for the entire length >>>> of the street in the DPW current plans to build a 5 foot wide >>>> sidewalk >>>> on the south side of Evergreen Avenue. >>>> >>>> I noticed in your experience with two cars passing and then the >>>> Prius >>>> coming toward >>>> you quickly as a car approached from behind while you were between >>>> Scott and Montford (Hawthorne?), you have found that the most >>>> dangerous time for pedestrians on Evergreen is when two cars are >>>> passing next to them as the drivers seem more focussed on clearing >>>> each other than clearing a pedestrian. >>>> >>>> Well Hanne, what if you were a MHS student or anyone else >>>> bicycling up >>>> the street in that same senerio? >>>> >>>> You stated the Prius suddenly stopped completely as did the oncoming >>>> car as they realized there was not room for all of you at that exact >>>> spot.  The Prius then continued on slowly and the oncoming car >>>> waited >>>> for it to pass. >>>> >>>> Had all as described not been on the street, both cars would have >>>> been >>>> able to pass each other without any problems.  Had you not extend >>>> your >>>> arm, you may have been clipped by the Prius at 20-25 mph. >>>> >>>> This would be the same case for bicycle handlebars extending into >>>> the >>>> right-of-way of the proposed narrowed road for traffic calming >>>> effects >>>> and the proposed narrowed road to accommodate the addition of the >>>> new >>>> 5 foot sidewalk. >>>> >>>> Now I agree with your statement of...If you had been on a sidewalk, >>>> with a parked car or not next to you when these cars passed, there >>>> would have been no need to "defend" your space as a pedestrian. >>>> >>>> Hanne, the current DPW plans call for a 5 foot wide sidewalk on the >>>> southside of Evergreen Avenue with on street parking and two 11 foot >>>> travel lanes for vehicles. >>>> >>>> Where's the room to safely bicycle and wheelchair access for people >>>> who need it on the north side? >>>> >>>> Imagine your experience at Scott taking place in the blind curve >>>> section between Linden Lane and Ethel Ave! >>>> >>>> I think I can speak for all of the residents on Evergreen Ave and in >>>> Homestead when I say, "We want everybody who travels Evergreen >>>> Avenue >>>> to have the safest route possible no matter if you're: walking, >>>> running, bicycling, in wheelchair, a car, truck, SUV, emergency >>>> response vehicle, delivery truck, unicycle, RV, tractor trailor, >>>> mobile home, etc,..." >>>> >>>> Sincerly, >>>> >>>> Keith Garriott >>>> >>>> aka: (The Local S. Disturber) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/15/10, Hannelore Barnes  wrote: >>>>> Since this is a neighborhood forum, I thought I would contribute my >>>>> perspective as an HV resident, Evergreen walker, and MHS parent. >>>>> My >>>>> intention is to provide a periodic report of walking the street >>>>> with my >>>>> daughters and/or dogs. >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate the earlier head counts of pedestrians on Evergreen >>>>> in the >>>>> morning but think things may have been a bit skewed given that >>>>> one day >>>>> was >>>>> the week of Thanksgiving and the other was a very rainy day.  Those >>>>> counts >>>>> were certainly not in line with my own experience of walking to >>>>> school in >>>>> the morning, thus my own report. >>>>> >>>>> Please keep in mind that I have young children who start at MHS >>>>> at 9am, >>>>> long >>>>> after kids are heading out of the valley to go to school as well >>>>> as most >>>>> of >>>>> the children heading to MHS.  If anyone cares to provide a report >>>>> for the >>>>> morning school "rush hour," I would welcome it.   I also want to >>>>> note >>>>> that I >>>>> do notice whether the cars are MHS or not as I feel the parents >>>>> get an >>>>> unjust bad rap in the neighborhood.  It seems that any car >>>>> driving down >>>>> Evergreen, especially an expensive one, is assumed to be MHS and >>>>> that is >>>>> just not the case, there are many people who live in the Valley >>>>> using >>>>> Evergreen to get out of Homestead as it is the widest and fastest >>>>> way to >>>>> Miller.  And many of these people have expensive cars too. >>>>> >>>>> I begin my walk at Linden Lane (where I have lived for over five >>>>> years) >>>>> between 8:45 and 9am and walk up to MHS with my 4 year old so I >>>>> only see >>>>> half of Evergreen most mornings. >>>>> >>>>> 12/15/10 8:45am Report: >>>>> >>>>> On our way to MHS, we passed two people heading out of the >>>>> Valley, one >>>>> with >>>>> a dog and one with a stroller, no bicyclists (probably given the >>>>> weather). >>>>> Given that it was a borderline rainy day, this is pretty >>>>> typical.  On >>>>> sunny >>>>> days we usually pass a lot more people with dogs and strollers >>>>> and a >>>>> couple >>>>> of bikes. >>>>> >>>>> The car experience was pretty typical I regret to report.  Most >>>>> cars >>>>> drove >>>>> the speed limit which seems fast but I know is actually 20-25 >>>>> mph.  Four >>>>> MHS >>>>> parents drove by me and six vehicles that were not MHS, ten cars >>>>> total. >>>>> Two >>>>> of the vehicles drove in a way that illustrates for me exactly >>>>> why a >>>>> protected and dedicated pedestrian path is needed. >>>>> >>>>> The first was a large four door silver pick up truck that passed >>>>> us at >>>>> 20-25 >>>>> mph with an enormous side mirror less than a foot from my head even >>>>> though >>>>> there was no oncoming traffic close to the intersection of Scott >>>>> and >>>>> Evergreen.  I was surprised and frightened that the driver chose >>>>> to drive >>>>> so >>>>> close to us, particularly my head, when there was ample room on the >>>>> street >>>>> for him to give us more buffer.  We happened to be walking next >>>>> to a >>>>> parked >>>>> car in the so I was further into the street than I would be if >>>>> there were >>>>> no >>>>> cars parked.   Walking on the strip on that block is just not an >>>>> option >>>>> given the uneven terrain and multiple surfaces/landscaping. >>>>> >>>>> Two more cars passed and then a blue Prius came toward us quickly >>>>> as a >>>>> car >>>>> approached from behind while we were between Scott and Montford. >>>>> I have >>>>> found that the most dangerous time for pedestrians on Evergreen >>>>> is when >>>>> two >>>>> cars are passing next to them as the drivers seem more focussed on >>>>> clearing >>>>> each other than clearing a pedestrian. >>>>> >>>>> I extended my arm out from my body to give my daughter and I an >>>>> "arm's >>>>> reach" of buffer space which I find helps to slow cars down and >>>>> notice >>>>> us. >>>>> The Prius suddenly stopped completely as did the oncoming car as >>>>> they >>>>> realized there was not room for all of us at that exact spot. >>>>> The Prius >>>>> then continued on slowly and the oncoming car waited for it to >>>>> pass, then >>>>> proceeded towards Montford.  Neither car was MHS staff or parent. >>>>> >>>>> Had we not been on the street, both cars would have been able to >>>>> pass >>>>> each >>>>> other without any problems.  Had I not extend my arm, I would >>>>> have been >>>>> clipped by the Prius at 20-25 mph.  If we had been on a sidewalk, >>>>> with a >>>>> parked car or not next to us when these cars passed, there would >>>>> have >>>>> been >>>>> no need to "defend" my space as a pedestrian. >>>>> >>>>> The walk back to Linden at 9:45 am was uneventful, there were 3 >>>>> people >>>>> walking dogs heading out of the valley and two cars heading into >>>>> the >>>>> valley >>>>> and one car heading out. >>>>> >>>>> Hanne Barnes >>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "HEAR US " group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to hearus@googlegroups.com >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> hearus+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/hearus?hl=en >>>> HEAR US is a community service sponsored by >>>> http://www.avehicleforchange.org >>> >>> >